An Interview with Karl Haendel (II)

By Vagner M. Whitehead

I think there are other ways in which your work refers to performance. One is the obvious laborious quality of the work (again, the hand moving on the paper surface) that implies time and gesture and even movement, given the scale of your drawings. Another level of performance I saw present in your abstract Lyndon drawings, which consisted of your walking back and forth while holding a pencil (a paradoxically restful and exhausting activity), where the action created the work (and not its referent like in most other works). Last but not least, your interests in the ‘artist-as-laborer’ as a practice/commentary imply performance as well, as in playing/defining of a role or roles as an active choice and not an innate quality.

Well, it looks like you put more thought into it than I did. I suppose in all those instances there are references to performance, but really don’t you think you were closer when you kept mentioning the concept of labor? Or maybe it’s something in between, if all studio labor, being cut off from actual economic systems and its Marxist implications, is just like a specter or parody of labor? That labor in the studio is only a performance of labor as the laborious acts are performed without a foreman over the shoulder, without any real consequence?

Karl Haendel, Contrasty Headlines #1, 2008, 132 x 203cm

Yes, I think so. But there is also your strong/direct reference to Joseph Beuys too (in A Very Special Valentines Day Schpiel, performance, 2003), a possible self consciousness that perhaps speaks more of Art History’s insularity. Going on this idea that art speaks and speech in general, the audience for this magazine is bilingual, mostly Spanish speaking. You have exhibited your work around the world. Given the prominent presence of (English) text, how has the response been outside the US? Do you believe your work communicates beyond its cultural/linguistic roots, and if so, what do you believe it communicates?

I actually did a show in Mexico City in 2002, at a fantastic alternative space called La Panaderia, and for that I think I did one or two text works in Spanish. I’ve also made one text drawing in Russian, and maybe one or two in German. In Mexico, many did not speak English, and I think naturally they gravitated towards the pictorial works more, but in Europe most of the art audience are fluent enough in English that translation in not much of a problem. I think one of the offshoots of work about identity was a lot of work about translation, as well as immigrant and marginal populations, so it made sense to ask those questions about reception, but I think there is less of this now, and it is not something I am so interested in. My work certainly comes off as American when I’ve shown in Europe, but I think it has less to do with the fact that the text works are in English and is more a result of the physical scale and ambition of the work. I tend to like the way that American work tends to be brash and has a can-do attitude. Like Bush, we tend not to second-guess ourselves. In politics this is problematic, but in art, as well as fashion and music, I think it is a positive quality. It is ballsy, and I can see how it comes off as arrogant, and perhaps American, but that’s ok. So the short answer is that I’m going to make the work that I am going to make, whether I show it New York or New Delhi. The most interesting cross-cultural exchanges happen when artists are true to their roots. For example, Kippenberger’s work wouldn’t be nearly as interesting if his puns and riffs were in English, and part of the pleasure non-German’s find in his work comes from discovering the cultural and social specifics from which the work draws.

Karl Haendel, Untitled (I will be good), 2007, pencil on paper, 114×150cm

Which texts in Spanish did you use and why?

The only one I remember offhand was «Te quiero amar pero ahorita no puedo», which was a text drawing and hopefully a translation of a drawing in English that said «I want to love you but I just can’t right now». I suppose this was a work about the rift between the heart and mind, and I thought it was a sentiment that was universal so that it would make sense in any country. I think I made it in response to a one-sided relationship I had with a girl, who I was into more than she was into me. I subsequently gave it to a couple of other girls when the situation was reversed. It’s actually a fairly nasty and mean-spirited work in the guise of heartfelt sentiment. It always brought to mind the Dylan line «you just kinda wasted my precious time, but don’t think twice, it’s all right.» Beautifully cruel, no?

Yes, very (laughs), yet so true. Another important aspect of your work is the constant questioning of the role of the artist in society. Have you arrived at any conclusion at this point? Do you think this is a self-perpetuating quest?

When I first started making art, many of my teachers were old school Marxists, and the type of artists I was drawn to were people like Haacke and Wodiczko, artists were trying to expand the limited field in which art operated. I guess that work is generally referred to as public art, although that category encompases many other types of work. But after a while I began to realize that the assumptions that this work operated under were misinformed, and that this work was just as elitist as gallery based work. To be a contemporary artist you must accept that you are working in a very rarefied field, one that for the most part is the realm of the educated and wealthy, or at least the thoroughly indoctrinated. There is some crossover into popular culture in the realm of fashion, but for the most part the type of work that can make that move is already fairly shallow, Murakami is a good example, and I would argue not very interesting. So unfortunately it seems that the role of the artist within greater society is quite small, either he is a shallow populist recruited to sell handbags, or some weirdo troublemaker on the six o’clock news, like Ofili was made out to be during the American stop of Sensation show.

So within the greater world we are really insignificant, but that affords us a great deal of freedom within our own microcosm, one of the interesting results of Modernism’s obsession with self-reflexivity. So in that sense it is self-perpetuating, as the tenants of questioning art’s boundaries, be they formal or social, are germane to art itself.

Any upcoming exhibitions coming up?

As of now, we are still working on the dates and locations, so basically, no. But at the studio we have begun working on a series of drawings about Shackleton’s failed Antarctic expedition of 1914. There were many such expeditions to the top and bottom of the world starting in the late 19th century, most disastrous as the explorers failed to take into account the tremendous power of the cold and ice. It’s sort of the hubris of man vs. the awesome force of nature, and has a nice resonance a century later with global warming. I’ve also been thinking about some work about Ford’s pardon of Nixon after Watergate, which also seems timely with regards to the Bush administration’s lies leading up to the Iraq war. This might be a little too topical for me, so I don’t know how far we’ll get with it.

Are these new series in any way connected to the idea that art/artists are explorers and liars? You made a comment earlier on being honest and not too clever in your practice (and here I do not mean to imply that you are a liar), but there is a double take that happens when someone sees your work, because they are photorealistic. Is this trickery a form of critique of representation (what you see may not be what you get) or a means of engaging your audience?

Now it is you who are getting too clever. I’m not trying to fool anybody, I’m just trying to give them a good time.

And you certainly are giving us a good time, Karl (laughs). Thank you for taking the time for this interview. We look forward to seeing your next show.

Vagner M. Whitehead is an artist, educator and curator based in Detroit. His works can be seen at www.vagnerwhitehead.com.